From Corporate Executive to Purpose-Driven Entrepreneur: Michelle Woo’s Journey to Finding Contentment and Purpose
Michelle Woo’s journey to entrepreneurship is rooted in years of experience as an executive director, where she worked with companies such as Spanx, before realizing that her true calling lay in blending her love for gardening with her desire to make a meaningful social impact. Through her business, Hearts and Spade, Michelle has created a space that empowers individuals and communities by helping them cultivate beauty, while also supporting refugees and other marginalized groups. In her conversation on the More Than Your Age podcast, Michelle opens up about her career shift, the importance of contentment, and how she’s finding fulfillment in her entrepreneurial journey.
From Corporate Success to Entrepreneurship
For years, Michelle worked in high-level corporate roles, including as the executive director for the Sara Blakely Foundation at Spanx, where she was able to drive meaningful initiatives and build partnerships that made a tangible impact. While she was highly successful in these roles, Michelle reached a turning point in her career when she realized that despite the professional accolades, she was not truly living out her passion.
The decision to leave the corporate world and pursue entrepreneurship was not an easy one, but it became clear to Michelle that her heart was drawn to creating something entirely her own. She wanted to build a business that not only allowed her to work with something she loved—gardening—but also provided opportunities to help others in meaningful ways.
Thus, Hearts and Spade was born: a business that combines Michelle’s passion for flowers and gardening with a mission to create beauty, educate others, and provide employment opportunities for refugees in her community.
The Heart of Hearts and Spade
At its core, Hearts and Spade is a business built on purpose. Michelle’s vision extends beyond selling gardening products and floral design services; it’s about cultivating beauty in every corner of life—whether that’s through flowers in your home or garden spaces that offer a sense of refuge. Michelle’s goal is to help others create spaces of beauty, which she believes can have a profound impact on mental well-being and quality of life.
Through Hearts and Spade, Michelle offers everything from gardening bulbs and tubers to seasonal gardening calendars that provide helpful tips for each month. But the real beauty of the business lies in its social impact. Michelle has designed her company not only to serve home gardeners but also to create meaningful employment opportunities for refugees in Wilmington, NC. By providing these workers with the chance to learn skills and earn a livelihood, she is fostering a more inclusive, sustainable community.
Contentment: A Choice, Not a Chase
A key theme Michelle explored during her conversation was the concept of contentment. In her years in the corporate world, she saw firsthand how people constantly chase after the next thing, hoping that it will bring them fulfillment. But as Michelle points out, no matter how much you achieve, the pursuit of more often leaves people feeling exhausted and unfulfilled.
Instead, Michelle believes contentment is a choice. “What is driving underneath the work?” she asks. For Michelle, her faith and identity provide the fulfillment and security that allow her to approach her business with a sense of peace and gratitude. Rather than chasing success for its own sake, Michelle works from a place of fullness—where “enough” is enough, and the work itself becomes a source of joy and purpose.
She encourages other women to look at their motivations—are they driven by a desire for external validation or are they working toward something that brings true fulfillment? Michelle shares that her own journey has taught her that real satisfaction comes not from achieving a set of external markers of success but from aligning with a purpose that is greater than the pursuit of personal gain.
Encouraging Women to Take Small Steps
For women who may feel blocked by age or circumstances, Michelle has some encouraging advice: don’t discount the small steps. She emphasizes that entrepreneurship and success rarely happen overnight. Rather, it’s about taking consistent, incremental steps toward your goals, no matter how small they may seem in the moment.
Michelle also stresses that it’s important to recognize that the path to success is not solely in our hands. There are often opportunities and people who will help open doors, whether it’s a mentor, a colleague, or a community. By staying open to these forces and continuing to take action, even when progress feels slow, we can find our way to success.
The Power of Community and Surrender
One of the most impactful parts of Michelle’s story is her emphasis on community. She acknowledges that none of her success would have been possible without the people who helped guide her along the way—whether it was a mentor, a friend, or a colleague who opened a door. This sense of support and collaboration has been a guiding force in her life.
Michelle compares this to a posture of surrender—holding open hands, ready to receive what’s next. This mindset of openness has allowed her to find freedom in her work, without the pressure to constantly strive for a version of success that doesn’t align with her values. It’s a message that resonates deeply with anyone who feels weighed down by the expectations of others or the desire for more. Michelle shows that success is about finding balance, receiving support, and remaining open to whatever comes next.
Growing More Than Flowers
Michelle’s story proves that it’s never too late to pivot, to follow your passions, or to create a business that is both meaningful and impactful. Through Hearts and Spade, Michelle is not just helping people grow flowers; she’s helping them grow a life filled with purpose, beauty, and community. By empowering refugees and offering education to home gardeners, Michelle is creating a ripple effect that touches lives in profound ways.
Whether it’s through her gardening products, her workshops, or her social impact initiatives, Michelle’s business is a testament to the power of purpose-driven entrepreneurship. It’s a reminder that, with the right mindset, it’s possible to build a business that not only brings joy and fulfillment but also makes a lasting difference in the world.
Connect with Michelle
For those inspired by Michelle’s story, there are plenty of ways to get involved with her mission. Visit Hearts and Spade to explore gardening products, educational resources, and services. Follow Michelle on social media at @heartsandspade for more updates and to join her community of gardeners and changemakers.
Remember, sometimes the smallest steps toward your dreams can lead to the most rewarding journeys.
Read the entire transcript below:
Erica Pasvar (00:00)
Well today I get the honor of speaking with master gardener, artist and founder and creator of Hearts and Spade, Michelle Woo. Welcome to the More Than Your Age podcast.
Michelle Woo (00:13)
Thanks so much, Erica. So glad to be here.
Erica Pasvar (00:16)
I’m glad to have you, Michelle. It’s been a while since we’ve chatted face to face or in person. And I want to share with the listeners that you and I know each other through your brother Weston, who just happens to be married to one of my best friends and I like to say my ultimate soul sister. And so I got to meet you through her and we’ve, you know, just through several conversations and then kind of knowing from Sarah just about
Michelle Woo (00:32)
haha
Erica Pasvar (00:40)
your life and like what you’ve done and kind of this big leap that you had to take. When I was thinking about guests for this podcast, I thought, Michelle would fit would be a great candidate for one of the guests just because of the big leap that you had to take when you were in such
a high esteemed position at a very well known company. And so we are gonna get to all of that. I wanna kind of start off with just kind of getting to see how you got there. So you studied graphic design and visual communications and entrepreneurship in college. How much did art and design play into your life growing up as a child, teenager through when you decided to go to college?
Michelle Woo (01:20)
Yeah, well first, Erica, I have to say that you kind of took me back there to the first time that we met, which I think was like on the party bus. It was like a fur bus or some kind of fun name like that for Sarah, my sister-in-law’s bachelorette party. And so I had really high expectations for our conversation today, knowing what fun you bring to the table. So I’m really, really glad to be here and, yeah, yes.
Erica Pasvar (01:42)
With the boas.
Michelle Woo (01:48)
I should have brought some accessories onto, not that the listeners would be able to see, but it would just bring me lots of joy. So thank you for having me. And to answer your question, I would say that art and design have been a through line to the majority of my story. And so my mom is an artist, not by trade professionally throughout her whole life, but it’s just, she actually is an artist currently, but.
built a career as a physical therapist for the first 43 years of her career, but art just had a place in our home because of her gifting as an artist and her creativity. I think that that was that was a part of my childhood. I identified as an artist from a young age. I think that everyone going through school does art as part of their education, as far as I’m aware. And I think that
I identified that this is something I enjoy and this is something that I have an ability for from a young age and I think my mom also fostered that and cultivated that. I remember doing some private art lessons and I also had a grandmother who was incredibly creative. She was like a walking Pinterest board. I mean she could just make any kind of craft.
was incredibly skilled at homemaking and making people feel welcomed. And that came to life through her garden, through her kitchen, through just the way that she decorated her home. And so I tasted those things from a young age and gravitated to them. And I think because I identified with that creative side of who I was from an early age, as I approached college,
I began to wonder like, do I want to do something like this more full time? I do remember taking a summer camp, art camp at SCAD, Savannah College of Art and Design. And I was seriously considering attending school at an art and design college. And I ultimately didn’t. think on one hand, it was, I wasn’t ready.
to commit to that being my lifelong career. And I think that there also is self doubt at play. Like, can I really make it as an artist? Like, do I really have what it takes? Like, am I really an artist? I think was probably a subconscious conversation that was happening at the same time, but ultimately decided to go with a liberal arts education and kind of more of a mainstream college experience and landed at UNC Chapel Hill.
But ironically, I came full circle back around to studying design at a liberal arts college, which wasn’t my original intention. But as I started narrowing down majors and really crossing the process I went through as I just began crossing off the list everything that I knew wasn’t for me. Biology, chemistry, anything math and science related. And it was a pretty narrow field I was left with. And so my major was really within journalism.
And within the field of journalism, my focus was visual communications, which ultimately was through graphic design. So I took the back way in, but landed there all the same.
Erica Pasvar (05:17)
Hmm.
Yeah, now, okay, because you also study entrepreneurship. In the back of your mind, had you thought like, I think one day I do want to own my own business or was it just a like, business is nice to know? Kind of what was your thought with that?
Michelle Woo (05:35)
Yeah, so entrepreneurship was something that I was always really curious about. Both of my parents owned their own businesses. As I mentioned, my mom was a physical therapist, but she owned her own home health practice, and my dad owned a painting company. So they were business owners. I don’t know that that is technically the definition of an entrepreneur, but I had lived with two parents who had an incredible amount of flexibility through their work, were able to sort of write the script as to what
they wanted to focus on and how they wanted, you know, what time they wanted to dedicate to work, first family. And so I think that model of flexibility just always kind of captured my imagination and, and being a creative person, I was very easily inspired by other entrepreneurs and other business owners and, and, and companies that, especially companies that were kind of bringing solutions or beauty into the world. And so, yeah, I,
remember also going to like a leadership workshop camp thing through my school that I somehow was selected for and I think it started planting those seeds of like what entrepreneurship was in my mind and as I started looking at colleges for whatever reason I was very interested in colleges that taught some form of entrepreneurship and so Chapel Hill had a pretty new entrepreneurship program and it was a minor that I
was very excited to be a part of and had an incredible experience through my association with that minor. And that ultimately is how I even was introduced to Spanx. yeah, think entrepreneurship has had a place as far back as I can remember in my story.
Erica Pasvar (07:24)
Yeah, it’s neat to the for you to even recognize that with your parents owning their own businesses that they were able to have that flexibility to be able to be present and do things and you know, they can still work but be active parents as well. And so you noted that for, you know, potentially what you were going to do now you. OK, so you focus on journalism with graphic design as part of it. And you also had opportunities to travel to you travel to China and Turkey, Morocco. Now, when you would travel, were these for
pleasure, school, potential work. What took you to these very unique places?
Michelle Woo (08:01)
Well, yeah, it’s fun to look back and sort of see how things come to life and I, my dad’s side of the family is all Greek. So they immigrated here from Greece. so also from a young age, I was very exposed to this alternate culture, very close to home. There’s a large Greek community and I think
There was something that really just spoke to me in that exposure. And so, you know, it just looked really different than visiting the friends in my neighborhood or through my school, going to my relatives’ homes. It was loud. It smelled different. There was so much food and people speaking in different languages. And I think I really had a kind of through that exposure.
learned that there’s just so much more than like what my day-to-day experience is. And I think that coupled with, I was involved with a youth group and through that youth group got to travel to some other places and experience a very different world than the one that I lived in. And so I think that really whet my appetite for travel and for just experiences and places that looked a lot different from home.
So every opportunity that I had in college, I really had this desire to go and see the world and experience culture and meet people really different than myself. And that has been, I don’t have that opportunity and privilege currently and right now where we are in our lives, but it’s one of the experiences I have most treasure in my life. And so each of those,
Erica Pasvar (09:40)
you
Michelle Woo (09:52)
Most of those opportunities, some travel was through like, I’ve spent a couple summers in Greece just with my family, visiting relatives, but a lot of that travel was really directed through the cultural immersion programs, through my college trips with my church, and I did like an exchange program. And then after college, I ended up moving abroad and living in Amman, Jordan for about a year.
Erica Pasvar (10:19)
Yeah, so I find that so fascinating that you, you you obtained an internship in Amman, Jordan, and that is also a, you know, not a common place where people search for to find an internship or a job. And so what did you find? How did you find it? And then why? I mean, I guess you had all these, like you mentioned, you had all these experiences abroad and doing travel that was outside of
Michelle Woo (10:27)
.
you
Erica Pasvar (10:47)
what you would see other people do. So how did you come across this internship and why specifically Amon or maybe it was the company?
Michelle Woo (10:54)
Yeah, that’s a great question. after I’d had all these experiences, you know, semester abroad, went a summer abroad to Beijing. That was through the entrepreneurship minor actually, and I was working an internship there for a summer. And then I spent a summer in Turkey. And so after having a summer in Greece, after having these experiences, I was hungry for more. And so as I started to think through what…
post-college was going to look like I really had a clue as what I wanted to do. And I had a really good friend of mine who had her sights set on moving abroad and studying Arabic. And Amman, Jordan, is one of the best places to study Arabic. It’s one of the most neutral dialects. And so for that reason, she decided that she was going to Amman. And I had studied Arabic through the cultural immersion program I’d done in Morocco.
And so, and just again, had this appetite for travel and I think a realization that like, this is the time of my life to do this. And I don’t know what else I want to do. So why not go to Amman with you? And so I started looking for an internship or some form of work that could like sustain my time there. And I found an organization that places undergraduates and recent graduates in jobs abroad.
And so I honed my search to the Middle East and specifically to Amman Jordan and through that organization was able to get this kind of extended internship position in Amman. And so I geared up to go and was planning to fly standby over to the Middle East. And my best friend who was really the thrust of us choosing where to go decided.
not to go at the last minute. And so I was really left with a choice. Do I go and or do I stay? And it was not an easy decision, but ultimately I decided to go and it was one of the best experiences of my life.
Erica Pasvar (13:03)
I am so glad that you did not allow the decision of your friend because she was the reason why you you decided to go and look for internship opportunities there and that, you know, for whatever reason she she didn’t and that you still said, no, I’m going to still go and do it. But like you said, it wasn’t an easy decision. I can imagine you were probably just like, I’m not going to know anybody and it’s going to be scary. So when you were there, did they place you in like an apartment or kind of a hostile situation with
other students doing the same thing.
Michelle Woo (13:35)
They did not. you were, they gave you a job, but you were responsible for your housing and they had someone pick you up from the airport and check in with you from time to time. But that was about it. And so that was in the deliberation of like, do I go or do I not? That was a big part of that conversation. And, you know, through a lot of prayer and ultimately getting connected to another young woman who was living there full time.
and had an apartment and needed a roommate, I felt like the pieces fell into place in order for me to feel like there was a real possibility for me to go and live there and feel, you know, that level of comfort knowing that like I had a roommate, I had a place to stay. So if those pieces hadn’t come together, then I probably wouldn’t have gone, but did.
end up finding an amazing, she was an American roommate living in Jordan and she was there studying language and we had lots in common and through her I was able to connect to a community of expats that lived there and then through my work in a Jordanian company then I was connected to tons of locals. So I kind of got the best of both worlds.
Erica Pasvar (14:50)
Yeah, that’s so neat. So when you were working for the company, were you speaking Arabic or were you, was there a hybrid of languages there?
Michelle Woo (14:59)
Unfortunately, I really only spoke English largely. I had studied Arabic and I was excited to, you know, put my skills to use and really improve my language skills, but everybody else wanted to improve their English skills. And so it was like you would sit in a taxi and immediately people, I mean, it was just like was a walking target. They just knew that I was, that I was American. And I was always a little intrigued by that because I am half Greek and I have, you know,
all of skin and dark hair and dark eyes and I was just always like well but how do you know like how do know that I’m American like I could at least be from another European country and they were all like we know like it is so I’m not not a very stealth operation but yeah
Erica Pasvar (15:41)
Hahaha.
That’s funny. So when you when you had intended to go there, did you go knowing you would be there a year or when you were there, it was okay. I think I’ll just you know, after some time it was no, I think a year is good.
Michelle Woo (15:59)
Yeah, it was a set period of time that the internship was for and it wasn’t a full year, but it was sort of like a school year roughly. So I went in knowing that this stint of time, I’ll have this job. And I got to travel a lot throughout that period of time. And at the end of it, there may have been an opportunity to like renew my internship or to stay, but.
I don’t really remember in my mind that even being an option. I sort of knew at the end of that period of time it was time for me to kind of return back home and find a job.
Erica Pasvar (16:36)
What a neat opportunity. mean, just thinking about the culture experience you got, the people you got to meet, the growth, know, personal growth that you had with that, that I’m sure still plays a factor in just things that you do and how you live your life right now. And so you return back to the States and you obtain a job with Spanx.
which I would assume is not an easy job to acquire, but you were able to get this job. How did you hear about the job? And it was a position as a copywriter, which is different from graphic designer, but I guess it’s in the realm of journalism. So just tell me kind of how this came into place.
Michelle Woo (17:16)
Yeah, so I returned home from Jordan and really didn’t know what was next. I knew finding a job was next on my agenda, but I really didn’t know where to start. And I think I felt very underprepared for job searching. And it was really a time where I felt really discouraged because I had sort of taken this year, most people take their gap year before college, but I had kind of taken it after college.
And kind of returned to everyone else had been living life as normal, but I’d been off having this amazing experience and then kind of jumped back in and it was kind of college time when I left and now it was young adult time and everyone had moved on in their lives and my friends were married or they had moved to different cities and they were advancing in their careers. And I just had this feeling of being left behind and kind of.
aimless like I just didn’t know what was next and up until that point everything had kind of fallen into place and the path was pretty clear and now it felt like it had opened up into this expanse and I didn’t know where to go and so I made a list of companies that I was that I was interested in or drawn to for whatever reason and Spanx was on that list. I had been introduced to Spanx actually through my entrepreneurship class in college
and I had applied to an internship there one summer and I didn’t get the internship. That was the summer I spent in Beijing. But I kind of circled back around and I think that it’s funny now after working there and knowing now what I do about the importance of representation, this wasn’t like a conscious thought at the time, but looking back it makes sense that I was drawn to this company because out of all the case studies that we studied in my entrepreneurship coursework.
there was one female led company and Sarah Blakely, the founder of Spanx is an incredibly dynamic, inspiring woman. And I think something subconscious while I’m studying this business really connected to me and I could see myself in the work that she was doing. And so it just kind of stuck and there was always this intrigue and this interest.
and this desire to work for a company like that. And so, I had my short list and I just started applying to these companies. I got interviews at a couple places, but really it felt like it was a really long season of kind of going nowhere. I was living at home with my parents and just was feeling like I was getting rejected after getting rejected. I just kept scouring the job listings and
kept applying to different positions. And eventually after applying to a few positions at Spanx, the recruiter called me and said, hey, like, you know, we’ve seen that you are applying to a lot of positions and you’re not really qualified, but you know, we’d love to have you come in and we can just do an exploratory interview. I think it’s what they called it. And so I was living in Wilmington, North Carolina. Spanx is in Atlanta, Georgia. So
I was thrilled. packed my car and drove to Atlanta and had this meeting, which I don’t think they actually remembered was happening. The person I was supposed to be interviewing with with a little caught off guard, but I met with several people while I was there. And I do remember at the time, the head of the HR department asking me, what do you want to do? And I just really didn’t know, but I knew that they had a foundation and I had this, you’re sort of another.
Erica Pasvar (20:52)
you
Michelle Woo (21:07)
thread of being really interested in philanthropic work that I was passionate about. And I remember saying, see that you guys have a foundation. I would love to be involved with that. And that really wasn’t an option at the time, but I could write. And there was a position that they were creating for a copywriter. And they gave me some writing tests. And I somehow passed them. And ultimately, they were willing to take a chance and offer me a job. And that was how I got my foot in the door.
Erica Pasvar (21:34)
Wow, that’s really, really cool. I love that you had applied multiple times and that they will one and then they reach out and they say, okay, we see that you’ve applied for a lot of these jobs. Why don’t you come in? I think that’s just to your point earlier, just says a lot about the company and what they value that the fact that they would bring you in and do an exploratory interview. I don’t know if that’s common. mean, my background is education. So it seems very, it just seems very,
Michelle Woo (21:40)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Erica Pasvar (22:01)
unique, but maybe it is common. I really honestly have no idea. And so I just love that that was a way and then you were able to pass those writing tests because you also applied and I just want people to understand too and realize like you had applied as an internship and then as an intern and you didn’t get that and then you had applied multiple times and then finally you got the yes. And so it’s like a persistence thing of just keep trying, keep trying and maybe it’ll work out for somebody and maybe that’s a shut.
a shut door to go a different direction. But just the fact that you were still persistent with a company that you valued and admired and obviously were able to have a great career growth in it. And so you quickly made your way through the company. So you were the copywriter, then you were a brand coordinator, a brand manager, then the executive director of the Spanx by Sarah Blakely Foundation, which is your I mean, and I don’t know what like I like I just said, I don’t know what the
what it was like as far as the culture there, but it seems like you were fairly young to attain such a high position with the company. How were you able to achieve that role specifically and just kind of work your way up?
Michelle Woo (23:11)
Yeah, I think there’s just a lot of factors at play. And I think that that is always the case, right? Like, I think it’s easy to say, I attribute to this or that. But I think that, you know, on one hand, the company was willing from the very beginning to open up this door and take a bet on me when I probably wasn’t the most qualified position and didn’t study copywriting, you know? And so I think…
just having an opportunity open up. think I had the willingness to step into that position and then, and I have a hard work ethic. think that is certainly a piece of it, but I cannot attribute my path at Spanx to really myself. I think that there was a lot of people and a lot of forces and a lot of just being in the right time at the right place involved. And I think, like you said before, there was an element of persistence in all of that too.
And then as a Christian who believes in a God that has a plan over all things, think that that was at work in ways that I didn’t even know. But I do think that, so for example, I got that job as a copywriter, which as the brand team was forming and developing and Spanx experienced pretty rapid growth.
around the time that I started. was probably like just after I started, yeah, right around the time that they were just blowing up in the media and the brand was just exploding. It was a really exciting time to be there. And so the department was growing and I sort of just got in at this great time where that growth happened very naturally. I had great rapport with my coworkers. I had some great bosses. then, you know, things happen like the woman who…
got pregnant with twins and went on a maternity leave and never came back. And while she was gone, I took over a philanthropic program that she was running called Leg Up. And it was basically a brand initiative to give other female entrepreneurs a leg up, to give them exposure and support for their businesses. So I got to take that over. This was something that I was passionate about, but wasn’t part of my job description. And then when she didn’t come back, that became really a part of my job description.
And like really just started to lay the groundwork for my involvement in the foundation when the time and place were right for the foundation to become more of a company-wide focus. So it had been a thing from the beginning, but as the brand was small and growing, it was run by like a rotating board of employees, not like a full-time position. And several…
years, a handful of years into my time at Spanx, Spanx brought an outside consultant in to help relaunch the foundation. And as part of that work, because I had been so closely tied both to the philanthropic work of the brand, and as a writer, I had been working very closely with the Spanx founder and just knew a lot of her story, a lot of her content. was very familiar with writing and just all things content. I kind of became this
that was pulled on to that project of relaunching the foundation because so much of the work that was being done was around developing a curriculum focusing on creating an entrepreneurial mindset in teens. And so it involved a lot of writing, a lot of transferring Sarah Blakely, the founder of Spanx, her experiences and thoughts and her own mindset into this curriculum.
Erica Pasvar (26:49)
Hmm.
Michelle Woo (27:02)
And so I kind of became the sidekick of the executive director of the foundation at the time. She was brought in and kind of was charged to relaunch the foundation and she pulled me into that work. And not only did she pull me into that work, she gave me the opportunity to be a part of that work, which was a huge privilege and an honor and something that I was passionate about.
And so I kind of lived in two worlds for a while, like one foot in the brand marketing side, one foot on the philanthropic side. And obviously those worlds kissed and there was overlap, but ultimately it came to a place where I couldn’t keep doing both. And she became just such a champion in my career. I mean, she was more than a boss. She was a mentor. She was a champion. mean, she was investing in me.
And ultimately, she ended up leaving the company on excellent terms. She’s still just very connected to the work that Sarah is doing, but she left to launch her own business and a very successful beverage company. And as she did, she had kind of been preparing me to step into her shoes. so, again, there is this, you know, there was something happening that was
bigger than me and I was so grateful to be in the right place at the right time and with the right people around me who were willing to take a bet on me and invest in me.
Erica Pasvar (28:35)
Yeah, that’s really neat. I love that. And I think too, it’s really cool that the your mentor, the executive director at that time, that she she stepped aside, leaving on good terms to start her own business. That entrepreneur spirit as she was working with this philanthropic side of the company, which is helping other women who are entrepreneurs. And so getting that information and then you step into that role. And then eventually you also leave to do something that is passionate.
for you and entrepreneur minded as well. And so I just really think it’s neat that that company, you know, wants to do great for women within, but then it’s also kind of training you up to start your own thing. Or it seems like maybe it’s just encouraged to, hey, yeah, you got you got a business in mind, like, let’s go for it. And so kind of to go back a little bit, while you were working there, you became a mother to three children. And a lot of moms speak with having this pull towards
wanting to work outside of home, climb the corporate ladder, also being a fully present mother, and then if you have a business idea, wanting to do a business idea. So was navigating having a successful career and motherhood ever really difficult for you?
Michelle Woo (29:43)
Yeah, I had my first my first kid who’s my son Watson at the same time that I got promoted into this role as executive director of the foundation. So it was like navigating these like two like huge responsibilities and and this was at a company that was very you flexible especially for that day and time and
that has a very heavy presence of not just women, but moms working there. So there certainly was like a healthy level of understanding and empathy from others working at that company. But it was a lot to manage. And because my mentor, boss, coach, champion had just left, she had been just so instrumental in my…
in my journey that I was also kind of processing not having her at my side and having to step into this role of leading. so yeah, it was challenging and I think my personality is prone to being consumed by work. I regrettably often choose the task over the person and
and this was a time of my life I really didn’t want to do that. And so I think that there was this ongoing internal struggle in trying to do all the things well. And I think ultimately that led to burnout. I was kind of burning the candle on both ends. I felt grateful for this position that I’d been hired into or hired up for. And at the same time, I kind of felt like…
it was made clear to me the company had kind of taken a bet on me and that I was young and I was not fully experienced at a role like this. And so I kind of felt like I had something to prove, like whether that was just, you know, in my head or external, regardless, I really wanted to do the job well. And so, but I also had had a wonderful maternity leave and had fully checked out and was so present at home and
had even taken time off social media and I just was, I just felt so fully alive. And so returning back and trying to find that, like how do I remain present and passionate at work and juggle all the balls? I mean, I definitely think like I had to look at my commitments as a whole and everything else pretty much had to go. Look, it was just those two categories. And…
I just lost my train of thought. was I gonna say? what I was gonna say. But at the same time, I did have this like side, you know, creative drive that wasn’t being met in the way that…
I I needed it to be and so and I have a million ideas and this yes passion for this growing passion at the time I think we’ll probably get there in a minute but for flowers and through sharing beauty with others and so I kind of started also exploring this like side hustle at the same time and was it can go more into detail here in a minute but essentially
through working, trying to juggle all the balls, be a really good mom, be excellent employee, and explore and honor this creative side of me. I burnt out. I really had to come back to the drawing board and…
relearn like how to hold all of those things and what it looks like to not be consumed by them.
Erica Pasvar (33:47)
Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Well, you kind of touched a little bit. You said there’s this creative side of you that you were wanting to pull out. You kind of started this little side hustle and to kind of go back to just for the listeners as well, you had your grandmother got ill back, I think it was 2015, right? OK, and so you had this dream of starting the seasonal flower delivery and that eventually blossomed to this new hobby of gardening and
Michelle Woo (34:06)
Yes.
Erica Pasvar (34:14)
And your finding in your words, a needed sanctuary amidst a constant stream of demands and distractions. So kind of walk us through, you kind of were touching base a little bit of that of just how those flower delivery service dream transformed into the creation of hearts and spades.
Michelle Woo (34:30)
Yeah, so yeah, my grandmother got sick and passed away in 2015. And as I mentioned earlier, she was this just force of creativity and beauty and just had ways of bringing beauty and hospitality to meet people in her home and in her life. And so as she was sick, I went to send flowers.
My mom was with her in hospital and I just was so underwhelmed by the floral delivery options in Hickory, North Carolina. And this was before I think a lot of the like, Hipper floral subscription delivery options had come onto the scene. And it was like this light bulb went off for me. Like this, this like, we can do this better. Like, and I was already like very intrigued by flowers and
It just sort of sent me down this path of like, want to learn everything I can about working with flowers, designing flowers, and I want to start a seasonal floral delivery company. And so I started writing a business plan. I use that term very loosely because in my creative workings, business plans look much more visual than they involve numbers.
So my dismay, but I started like setting to work, just learning everything I could about working with flowers and sort of forming this nurturing this dream. And I started testing it and I started arranging flowers and I ran a number of trial models with subscribers who would, I would at first deliver these floral arrangements to them. And then I realized very quickly that’s a logistics business. I don’t wanna be delivering flowers like.
next iteration was let me ship you the flowers because really the magic happens when you’re involved in the process and when you get to use your hands and cultivate beauty and as I was just describing this sort of as I was rising in my career this need to unplug and to not be so distracted and to be more present and to be grounded like I was feeling that need myself more and more and that is ultimately what I discovered in flowers was
their power to invite rest and to bring sanctuary and to encourage mindfulness and a sense of agency and purpose and all these kind of therapeutic benefits that surrounded working with them. wanted to share that with others. And it was like I needed that more than ever as I was in this time of my life where I was busier than ever and had more demands and more pressures.
And so I was very passionate about that. I didn’t want to give it up, but eventually I did get to that place where I got pregnant with my second and I just couldn’t do it anymore. Like I just, that’s when I totally burnt out and I knew I wasn’t ready to leave Spanx at the time and just financially that didn’t make sense for our family. And obviously I didn’t want to give up being a mom and that was like the real clear way forward for the season of life I was in.
And so that’s what had to on the chopping block. So I sort of set that down for a year and a half. And then in 2020, the pandemic hit and I was semi recovered from my burnout before the pandemic. But during the pandemic, a couple of things happened. One, my work at Spanx really took an exciting turn.
in that I mean, we suddenly had all eyes sort of turned toward what are we doing to help, which is the work of the foundation. And so it was a time where I got to be really creative and really hands-on and like really thoughtful about how we carry out our mission and really involved in that process. And so it was really purposeful and exciting and it felt like
this matters, like this work that we’re doing. And we ended up launching a program that gave $5,000 grants to female entrepreneurs. And it was inspiring to just hear these women’s stories and to see their commitment and their passion. And so it was very gratifying. And my cup was feeling filled through that work and through just all the other space that was created by the lockdown and
and just social events being taken off the calendar and in that space, an idea emerged or I would say like this really, it was sort of like a clarifying moment and I remember specifically like I was just having my quiet time, I was in prayer and I just kind of realized like it’s gardening and not like flowers that are dying that I want to share with people because
my garden had become a place of refuge. And all those benefits that I had experienced through flower arranging, they applied to gardening like tenfold because, you’re just watching on repeat this living picture of hope, putting this little seed in the dark earth and covering it up and, you know, seeing something emerge that turns into beauty, not only outside, but something that you can bring into your home and enjoy and share with others and
It was just this really life-giving experience working in my garden and also bringing kind of the fruits of my labor in and getting to arrange them and enjoy them. And that’s kind of why I got into gardening in the first place was from the cut flower perspective. Like I loved working with flowers and it’s really hard to find some of these specialty heirloom varieties that don’t ship well or that are just crazy expensive. Like you’re not going to find them in the grocery store. So I started
trying to learn how to grow my own once we had purchased a house. And so during, I sort of had the foundation laid and then during COVID, the sort of, you know, stars aligned and I realized like it was my aha moment where I realized like, this is the thing I really wanna share with others, especially in this time where everybody’s sort of in need of a sanctuary and this.
a place for our souls to feel replenished and to be reminded of the goodness and the beauty and the truth that exist in a world that feels overwhelmingly broken and damaged and sick. so that is when I picked back up the work and started taking baby steps toward it.
Erica Pasvar (41:24)
Yeah, and you know, it’s what you provide is just so beautiful and just the gardening yourself of the flowers and the design of it is just, it’s absolutely gorgeous. And like you said, it was a refuge for you and being outside can really do that to you. And I wanna, I kinda wanna share something that in a post that you shared on social media back in August, you had celebrated three years of being full-time on your own. And so, excuse me.
You stated, left my cush corporate job to take a swing at being a mompreneur while the leap has been harder than I could have ever imagined. So everybody flash forward, she left, she left the job. It’s also been more rewarding than I could have dreamed. That doesn’t mean I’ve magically arrived at some place of utopia or quote unquote made it as an entrepreneur, far from it. At the same time, I’m learning over and over again that contentment isn’t to be chased, but chosen.
when I take my eyes off the moving finish line of success and I’m honest with myself, I couldn’t be more grateful for where the last years has led me. You said a lot more, but this is why I was just very interested in interviewing you because you did, you had this cush job, you were doing great things and it was eventually like you said, there was just burnout because of just not being able to do both. You still loved where you were and you decided to leave it to chase this dream that eventually cultivated into what your business is now. And so,
What was the solidifying factor that urged you to take this jump and make that risk?
Michelle Woo (42:53)
I wish I could give you some really deep personal insight here, but the truth of the matter is our nanny decided to retire and I had been grappling for quite some time with is this still where I’m supposed to be? I have all these dreams, all this creative ambition that looks different than my day-to-day work here at Spanx and it just never felt like
Erica Pasvar (43:03)
Hahaha!
Michelle Woo (43:20)
it was polished enough or that it was stable enough or that I had enough resources or enough time for all the reasons, I just was afraid to make that leap. And irony is that that’s kind what I did in my job every day was encourage these other entrepreneurs and the goal was to empower female entrepreneurs. And yet here I was kind of…
of living the safe life you know and but I needed that outward I needed that outward thrust in order to kind of push me push me to make the leap and I think when it so it wasn’t a super easy decision even then she came to us and told us she was retiring we were so devastated because she was so wonderful she’s like our family we didn’t have family in Atlanta
And she was like, took care of all of us and was just really special to us in a lot of ways. And so it felt like, wow, this is like, this is a huge change and we can’t replace you. And it was still during COVID, this was in 2021. And actually she told me the week before I was going back to work from my third maternity leave. And so I had just had three kids and it was…
Erica Pasvar (44:39)
gosh.
Michelle Woo (44:41)
was
preparing just to kind of resume work as normal and you know, was there was there was craziness there but there was you know, sort of a known craziness to how our lives operated at a time. But yeah, I think just really sitting with it really thinking through like what I really wanted and obviously talking it through with my husband.
The numbers still really didn’t make sense for me to, hearts and spades, I had started at that time, but I mean, it was a very fledgling side hustle that wasn’t gonna provide for our family and I wasn’t gonna have childcare anymore either, was the big kicker. But ultimately, I just knew it, like in my gut and as I stood before the Lord, it was time, I couldn’t keep.
clinging to this thing that felt safe, that it was gonna be scary, but it was gonna be good. And,
I had a mentor at the time as I was really wrestling with what to do, asked me to like think about from a third person perspective, like what would Michelle do? And it was a really helpful tool for me at that time to kind of yeah, like Michelle’s not gonna choose the safe option. Like she’s gonna choose the path of adventure and of faith and…
she’s not gonna cling to outer superficial titles and look to exterior things as her place of identity and significance, which obviously as you can hear me saying this, these are the temptations, right? Like these are things that I do. But I wanted to, yeah, just to be faithful with this dream I had been given and give it a chance.
Erica Pasvar (46:37)
Right.
Michelle Woo (46:46)
And it’s not like there’s an instant success story here I can like report back to you, but I am so grateful that, I mean, in so many ways, see, just as I see how I got to that position at Spanx, how the path has unfolded since, there has been a million just little ways where like this needed to happen in order for this to happen. now my…
family lives in a whole different state. we, but like, I don’t think we would have ever moved to North Carolina, which is where I’m from and which is where my family is. And we ultimately decided, you know, from a pace of life standpoint, our schooling and education and just being near family and being outdoors more, being at the beach. Like there’s just a number of reasons why we made a decision to move. you know, looking back, I can even see how the domino effect.
has played out and we wouldn’t have moved if I had had a job that was still really tying me to Atlanta. so, yeah, it’s still a process, but sometimes I think we need those really external factors to just nudge us in the right direction, and that really is what happened.
Erica Pasvar (47:41)
Yeah.
Hmm.
Yeah, yeah, I think it’s really neat. Back in, you know, in that quote that you said, one of the things you said too was contentment isn’t to be chased, but chosen. I want, I’m saying it now because I don’t want to forget it later and I’m just looking at our time and I want to honor your time as well. And so I just want you to remember that in the back of your mind because it’s going to equate to my last question. But before that, I really want to hear more about Hearts and Spades just so that the listeners can know a little bit more because
Like I said, what you provide is beautiful. You really have this amazing talent. I was looking through your website too, and I really didn’t realize some of the services you provide. So for people to learn, you provide custom garden designs. I wish you could provide mine here in Texas, but you’re in North Carolina, that’s okay. You do holiday decor packages, workshops and classes, and you have calendars and paintings. They’re beautiful. So just share a little bit more where what people can learn from Hearts and Spade and…
Michelle Woo (48:43)
He
Erica Pasvar (48:56)
about your classes and just what you provide. And if there’s anything, because I have listeners from all over the States and some from outside of the US. So if there’s anything that they can glean from what you provide, I’d love to hear a little bit more.
Michelle Woo (49:10)
Absolutely. so Hearts and Spade is a social enterprise that aims to spread the joy of gardening and support refugees. And so we do that a number of ways. As you mentioned, Erica, we have products that are really inspired by the garden or for the garden. And so these are things to really help create places of refuge in our own homes and gardens. So I realize some people aren’t gardeners, so we’ve got
paintings and prints that are inspired by scenes from gardens of mine and a number of other garden spaces that I deeply admire and draw inspiration from. But we also have actual products that you can put in your garden. And all of our gardening efforts are really hinged around the idea of growing cut flowers and enjoying cut flowers from yard to table. And so I know Florals has really taken
a main stage in social media and people are very into the idea of DIY floral arranging. And as I spoke to earlier, there’s just so many benefits to having flowers in your home, to working with flowers, to enjoying their beauty, to celebrating that beauty, to sharing it with others. And so we want to empower home gardeners, or even if you have a pot on your balcony, there’s so many ways to…
experience the joy that growing flowers can bring and sharing that with others. So we have bulbs and tubers and corns and a number of basically like garden products that you can actually grow at home and we’ll give you all the instructions and all the education on what you need to do that. And we have lots of lots of content to kind of couch that in both on our website and
social media. But then we also have, and these are more local services, but a number of services that support home gardeners to create and cultivate spaces of beauty and refuge. So we do have garden design services, the classes and workshops that can be tailored to specific client needs, among them flower arranging, seed starting, bowl planting.
just kind of gardening basics. so, yeah, kind of, and then the other part that I mentioned is it is all in an effort to create a sustainable business platform that can employ refugees, especially as we are building a client base here in North Carolina and designing people’s gardens and servicing those gardens. The idea is that we’ll be able to offer meaningful employment opportunities.
and are trying to do that now as best we can with even just from the, we’re still a very small operation, but you mentioned the calendars and we do have, this is really the product that launched it all. So when I, back in 2020, had this idea like, this is the thing. It’s not shipping people cut flowers. It’s teaching people how to fish. It’s giving them the seeds and the content and education that they need.
to grow their own flowers, but I wasn’t ready to quite do that yet, and it wasn’t the right timing because I had sort of missed the spring window. So I said, I can create a calendar that I paint. That’s creative part of me, right? Like I love to paint, but I often don’t have the motivation or the focus enough to like do it as much as I want. But I decided to paint 12.
seasonal paintings that corresponded with each month in the calendar and then include a little gardening tip at the bottom of each calendar page that corresponds with what to do in the garden that month. And then the whole thing was designed as a desk calendar to sit in a little calendar base that was designed and created by a local Afghan refugee who has a wood carving business. And so we were able to employ him to make the stands and 10 % of
profits from the calendar go toward initiatives to support refugees like flower arranging classes and community garden spaces. And so that is one exciting initiative that is currently in the works is really creating this community gardening space for refugees here in Wilmington, North Carolina. But through and through that is really the heartbeat of what I want Hearts in Space to be and I’m hopeful that
as it continues to grow, Lord willing, that we’ll have more and more opportunity to carry out that mission.
Erica Pasvar (54:03)
Yeah, man, that just sounds so impactful. just being able to provide work for refugees and then also helping people in their garden. And I love, too, just the importance of teaching, hey, you can plant the seeds and grow the flowers in your own home and just make that a part of their own refuge themselves and their own backyard sanctuary, whatever that can mean and look like. And I didn’t even realize that the calendars had gardening tips for each month.
Michelle Woo (54:22)
Thank
Erica Pasvar (54:28)
That is amazing. this episode is going to be released in January. And so for everybody listening, it’s a great time to purchase a calendar. We may be halfway through January, but that’s OK. We can still get the calendars for the remainder of the year. I think that’s fantastic. Well, Michelle, I have my last question, and I want to tie it into that contentment question that I mentioned earlier. So I’m going to pull that one back up just to remind you. OK, so you said, contentment isn’t to be chased, but chosen.
So I’d love to hear if you wanna just tie it all in together, really just answer however you feel led to. But you took a leap, you left that highly esteemed position, the nanny let quit. And so then it just kinda made it work too for you to do something that you’re passionate about. And it’s scared, I know it’s hugely rewarding. And women need to hear that encouragement even though that something is hard and scary, that they can do it.
And so if you could encourage one woman who feels blocked or limited to pursue a dream or a goal based on her age or just a life circumstance, what would you tell her?
Michelle Woo (55:33)
yeah, I mean, I think coming back to the contentment piece of it, I think that, I mean, I think our life is constantly like we’re chasing after, chasing after things. And if we’re really honest with ourselves, you know, cognitively, we might not realize that, but like we’re really honest with ourselves. It’s like, we can all fill in the blank. Like, what is that thing that if we just have that, like it would make us like content.
or fulfilled or secure or it would give us a sense of significance or whatever that thing is. And the reality is, like, whatever that blank that you fill, how much of it will be enough? And the answer is always just a little bit more, right? So it just becomes this rat race and we all fall prey to it. And so I think it is just a continual reminder that I need that
Erica Pasvar (56:19)
Yep. Yeah.
Michelle Woo (56:31)
as a Christian, I believe that I do have fulfillment in identity and security at my disposal through my faith that like can never be taken away. And so I think that is this beautiful gift that I don’t have to do anything but receive. And it frees me to do the work in a different way, not so that the work doesn’t have to own me. I don’t have to be chasing after this.
definition of success that really is never going to ultimately be enough. But I get to work out of a place of gratitude and fullness and that’s a choice that we can make. Like do we want to choose the gratitude and say like enough, like I have enough and that can motivate us toward whatever it is that we’re seeking or do we want to let that thing that we’re seeking
and its promise for fulfillment be what we’re always striving for. And I’ve totally experienced both sides of that coin. And the chasing is a lot more exhausting and never fulfilling, you know? So I think in, yeah, I think in encouraging other women, I think that that would be one thing is like what is driving underneath the work?
Erica Pasvar (57:47)
Yeah
Michelle Woo (57:57)
and let that be the driver and not just this.
you know, subjective measure of success.
because it’s hard, right? Otherwise, it’s really not going to be worth it. And so I think there’s lots of meaning and purpose and gratification that comes with that. The other thing that I would say is don’t discount like the small steps. I think that often we hear stories of success and of entrepreneurship where we
Erica Pasvar (58:11)
Right, yeah.
Michelle Woo (58:34)
I don’t think it usually is, but I think it can appear that it is this overnight success or this just… But I think that chipping away at something, like one step at a time, is more often the way that people arrive at their goals and arrive at the finish line. And so don’t discount like the little…
the little work, you know, just the heads up over time. And I think just doing your best to embrace the season that you’re in. And just like as we were looking at my own journey and how whether it was the unique opportunity to have this informal interview or the boss who, you know, really invested in me and then she stepped away or receiving the leg up program from the woman who went on maternity leave or our nanny retiring like
You know, I think that we do have responsibility to do with excellence the things that before us and it’s not bad to go after goals or to want them, but also to recognize there are forces at play outside of us. are pandemics that hit, right? There are people who are in our path who will be instrumental and who will open the door and hold it open or will invest in us in a special way or
I mean, the list goes on and there’s countless ways in which things are working outside of ourselves to make that path clear. so it’s not all sitting on our shoulders. And I think when we can receive that and acknowledge that, it brings freedom to just kind of keep taking that one step at a time. And I just like to think of this picture of like holding open hands that are like ready to like surrender and ready to receive whatever’s next. And that posture of…
of approaching life has just brought so much more freedom and contentment in my own life than like the burnout and striving that I’ve also experienced.
Erica Pasvar (1:00:43)
man, that was a great answer. I’m just thinking having someone’s opening the door, holding the door open and keeping it open or I can’t remember exactly what you said. And then what is the driver for the driving reason for why you’re doing what you’re doing? So many other things. Michelle, I just appreciate you taking the time. I know people can find your website, heartsandspade.com and I know you’re on social media at hearts and spade. So Michelle Woo, thank you so much for joining me today on the More Than Your Age podcast.
Michelle Woo (1:01:09)
Thank you so much, Erica. It has been a pleasure.
Erica Pasvar (1:01:12)
It was a treat. Thank you.
Michelle Woo (1:01:14)
Thank