What if the life you imagined didn’t happen—but something even richer and more creative was waiting instead?
That’s exactly what happened to Lisa Apple, a Dallas-based writer, performer, and now musical creator. In her 40s, after walking through a painful divorce, Lisa found herself alone—but surprisingly free. In this inspiring episode of the More Than Your Age podcast, Lisa opens up about what it means to rebuild your identity, pursue creativity, and embrace singlehood in midlife.
From Heartache to a Musical: Writing Through the Pain
Lisa started writing her musical, Boy on Billboard, during one of the hardest seasons of her life—her marriage was unraveling, and the world was shutting down due to COVID-19. Instead of retreating into despair, Lisa leaned into creativity.
“That’s kind of when I just sat and wrote… yeah, a lot.”
Writing became both an escape and a way to process deep grief. Years later, her musical would come to life on a Dallas stage, reminding us all that it’s never too late to start something new—especially something meaningful.
What She Would Tell Her Younger Self
Lisa married at 36—much later than most of her peers in her Texas church community. For years, she felt behind, wondering if something was wrong with her timeline.
“I would say… marriage is not the end goal. We’ve reduced womanhood to being a wife and mom—but what if those things don’t happen? Then what?”
It took time, therapy, and a lot of soul-searching, but Lisa realized that her value was never tied to a ring or a role. Her encouragement to women who feel stuck because of age or circumstance?
“Sometimes it takes a long time to hear that voice inside you saying, ‘No, this is it.’ But it’s there. Stop and listen.”
Living Free—and Still Dreaming
Now at 46, Lisa is single, dating someone wonderful, and living with a deep sense of gratitude. Not because everything went according to plan, but because she made peace with where she is—and who she’s becoming.
“There were so many golden moments that I still look back on that make me so thankful to wake up currently alone.”
Her story is a powerful reminder that you’re allowed to outgrow dreams that no longer serve you—and grow into new ones that surprise you.
Listen to Lisa’s Full Story on the More Than Your Age Podcast
In this episode, Lisa talks candidly about:
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Navigating singleness and shame in faith communities
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Finding herself again after divorce
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Writing and producing a musical in midlife
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Why women over 40 still have big dreams worth chasing
Listen now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or YouTube
Read the transcript here:
Welcome to The More Than Your Age Podcast With Host Erica Pasvar
Erica Pasvar (00:01)
Lisa Apple, I am so happy and glad I get to have you joining me today. Welcome to the More Than Your Age podcast.
Lisa Apple (00:08)
Thank you, Erica. Thank you for having me. I’m excited.
Erica Pasvar (00:11)
Yes, well, Lisa, there are a few rich moments in your story that contribute to the woman you are today. We may get into all of it. We may not. It just kind of depends on the time that we have. But I saw a post of yours on Facebook. I have no idea how long ago it was, months ago, maybe even longer than that, just regarding this new endeavor of yours. And I was rooting from you from afar. And I just was like, my goodness, I need to invite Lisa on the podcast because
Lisa Apple (00:33)
Mm-hmm.
Erica Pasvar (00:40)
Your story in more ways than one really fits is a true example of being more than your age, being more than your life circumstance, and then trying something new and hard and using a pain to create an entirely new life for yourself. And so we are going to get into that. You have been a middle school teacher for over 18 years. You just recently left to start this brand new chapter. Before this, like more recently, had you ever thought you would leave education?
Lisa Apple (01:02)
Mm-hmm.
I actually, there were a couple times, it’s been, so I’m like 17 and a half years at, I just want to give it the, you know, because I feel like with each semester of teaching you just earn so many, you know.
honors or whatever as far as like just the work that it is. That’s it’s a lot of work. I had yeah, I had moments of thinking about like, I think I maybe want to do something different or I want to kind of pursue some other things. I loved my job though. I love the students and I love being a teacher and I had a routine. I love the people I worked with. It was such a great it was.
Prestonwood Christian Academy and it was just such, I had such a great experience. And toward the back half, like the last like five-ish years, I got like a new, well, we basically built a whole new middle school. anyway, I had just the most wonderful room with like, it looked out on, there were windows everywhere and it looked out onto this pond and like on the Prestonwood property. it was just really, really nice. And the kids were great and I got into a groove and then, yeah.
And then I kind of felt like, this whole next chapter of my life is kind of like calling me, calling me, definitely. So.
Erica Pasvar (02:27)
Yeah, and you were staying for like about five years now is kind of what you felt.
Lisa Apple (02:31)
Well, the it’s probably been like the last year, I, yeah, the girl that I like, this musical that I she came to me, it’s been about six years, and she used to also work at PCA, and she had come to me and said like, hey, let’s tell the story, you know, let’s tell the story, let’s tell the story of your brother, and.
and we had been working together. She was in middle school theater and I was in middle school choir and her whole thing was like, I can’t find a really good show that’s like age appropriate. Like we should just write something and we always had a good time together and had fun creative brainstorm sessions. so that’s kind of how that started. And so it’s been about actually like six years. yeah, so then in the last like six to nine months, I was thinking like, okay, I don’t know how this is gonna un.
unfold for me to get to New York. I don’t know what it’s going to look like, but I just kind of felt like this, I think this needs to happen. Like I’m on the back half of really making, of taking a big turn in my life, you know, like I’m not 25, so.
Erica Pasvar (03:37)
Yeah.
Well, OK, so before we get to kind of when your coworker or your friend kind of came to you, when you were teaching,
Lisa Apple (03:41)
Yep.
Erica Pasvar (03:47)
also wrote and recorded music as well. How long into teaching did you start writing and recording music or had that kind of been a part of your life always?
Lisa Apple (03:56)
It had always been a part of my life. would work and I mean just like artists do, you know, like work and you kind of do whatever and then you take your money and you put it into what you love to do. so anytime I could save and I had enough money, like I’d record, I think the first thing I recorded was like, I think it was like in 2006 or seven and it was just like a five song EP. My cousin, Chris Hawks down in Austin, he really helped me out like a whole lot with it.
And so yeah, like songwriting and stuff has always been, and you know, as a songwriter, kind of want to get your music out there. And so when I was younger, it was like, well, I’ll just record and sing my music and stuff. so, yeah, and then I did a, let’s see, I think it was like 2015 that I did like a full
of songs. And that just was like therapeutic.
writing about love and family and life and that’s kind what I like to write about. And yeah, I was working at PCA at the time and kind of doing both and so, yeah.
Erica Pasvar (05:01)
Did your students know that you
music as well?
Lisa Apple (05:05)
You know, if they found me online, just, you know, like searching music or whatever, then they knew. I kind of tried to keep it separate just from the standpoint of like, you know, teaching middle school kids are so funny and you know, their minds go everywhere. And so, you know, so I kind of, I like found that I almost had more success the less that they knew about my personal, but I did.
I tried to be motivating and inspiring and talking about how much I do love songwriting. so then, I mean, every now and again, there’d be a super inquisitive kid that would ask, and then I would kind of tell them, like, yeah, you can look up my music online. And they’re like, what? So, a little bit. Yeah. And then there’s that. Yeah, yeah.
Erica Pasvar (05:52)
gives you a little more street cred with the middle school kids. Yeah,
which is not, you why you’re doing it. Did you also perform yourself a lot or was it mainly like just, right, maybe perform here and there for friends?
Lisa Apple (06:07)
It was, yeah, it was a little bit more, I mean, I never, was never really anything, quite honestly, like I didn’t have, so many years ago, like, I really didn’t know, I didn’t know how to get from like point A to B with having a career like that. But also, like, I just had so many insecurities about believing in myself and really having confidence and,
And it’s so funny because I felt like the feedback that I would hear, it’s like there was the feedback that I got and then the way that I felt inside, it was like a major disconnect. And so it was a thousand percent on me that I didn’t, I performed a little bit, but I never really like pursued it from the standpoint of like, I want to be an artist and I’m going to try to do this. You know, I did gigs every now and again. And it was fun. I I enjoyed it. was, it was, it was fun.
But I just didn’t have, wasn’t like, I taught, had like kind of that stable, I wanted a routine. And that just, I mean, that kind of helped me be creative. But in hindsight, I know like that wasn’t, you know, I didn’t have enough confidence. And everyone, I had a great family, like a lot of support. But it was such a like, it has to, like if you don’t believe it, you know, if you don’t believe.
that you’re capable of something, it does not matter, you know, how many people you have around you building you up. So, yeah.
Erica Pasvar (07:37)
Yeah, that’s really true. That’s a good perspective with that too. So you started writing and perform great on occasion just because of what you’re saying, like this other people coming in and telling you great things about yourself, but then just this lack of confidence in a way in yourself. But you, in this album or in some of the writing that you wrote, you have a very personal song titled Jamie. Tell me about the song and about Jamie.
Lisa Apple (07:47)
Yeah.
goodness yes okay so Jamie is Jamie is the name of my youngest brother so there was like four of us I’m secondborn and he was the youngest and and as he got older we called him James but like always he was the youngest and so we called him I mean he was Jamie for us and
had I think when he was around like 19 or 20 he had
Nashville to be with my cousin who was at Vanderbilt and I had actually I had been in Nashville I graduated from Belmont but I had moved back to Dallas and so we get a call for my cousin actually my mom did and and basically just said like James is really struggling and he and he had had this like kind of this a bit of an episode like we did not know what was going on but it involved
my cousin coming home from one of his classes and my brother had like, he was watching Lord of the Rings and it was almost like he had immersed himself in the movie, but he was a bit having this psychotic episode. so, I mean, my cousin obviously was there and saw it all, but he had been holding knives. He was in no way, it wasn’t that he was wanting to harm my cousin, but I think my cousin was so concerned that he was gonna harm himself. And so,
like going a little bit further back, like growing up, James, like my brother was just the most endearing, creative, just super low key. seemed like he was, he really was like such an easy kid for so long and just fun and playful and everything was imaginative and just very creative. And so, and it was like, like even like in years in middle school and like late middle school when, you know,
boys and girls are just, kind of retreat a little bit because they’re trying to figure out where they belong, you know? He was, I mean, he was so outgoing and just everywhere we went, he would talk to people like at a coffee shop, like he’d ask them questions or he’d be like, hey, could I come behind the, know, can I help you guys? Like he was just silly and he was fun. And so he had this whole episode and when he I just remember my mom.
going up there and she kind of was calling us and giving us updates. And so that song, I wrote that song it just, I mean, it says, don’t give up hope now, you’ll find your way, you’re on the right side, keep moving on, we’re all behind you now, Jamie. That’s kind of like how the chorus goes.
And yeah, it was like kind of a healing thing for me, but also a way to kind of express like, man, I want my brother to get through this, you know? And so.
And then flash forward many years, years, actually probably like three or four. I mean, can I spoiler alert this? Okay. Okay, I’m gonna just like kind of jump ahead a little bit to
Erica Pasvar (11:01)
Yeah, at least it’s your story. Absolutely. Yeah.
Lisa Apple (11:05)
but in 2010, my brother did pass away. And so I ended up singing that song that I had recorded, like kind of on this first album that I had done. I ended up seeing that as funeral.
And I remember, I had friends that were like, how can you do that? Like what in the world? But it was one of those things where it was like, I don’t know if this is as a performer or as an artist or whatever, but like when it comes to do with like honoring someone and like, you know, like wanting to just really recognize them, I knew I was like, I can do this. And my mom had asked me to do And so it was like a no brainer.
thing to do and so then I actually re-recorded that song and then that’s the song that my friend Meg had heard when I re-recorded it anyway. So yeah, super special song to me for sure.
Erica Pasvar (12:00)
Absolutely, I listened to it yesterday just in preparation
brought tears to my eyes just because I knew part of the story
Lisa Apple (12:08)
Yeah.
Erica Pasvar (12:09)
wanna say I’m sorry for your loss and I know the song is so special and of course it led to what you’re doing now and your coworker, we mentioned her a little bit earlier, Meg, she came up to you one day and said, let’s write a musical and tell the story of your brother.
Lisa Apple (12:24)
Mm-hmm.
Erica Pasvar (12:26)
When she came up to you, what were your initial thoughts about it? When she hears this. You’re not crazy, Meg. Good crazy.
Lisa Apple (12:30)
I thought she was crazy. Because she kind of is, just kidding, not really. we totally… Yeah, I know!
Yeah,
she’s gonna be like, that’s so typical of Lisa. We tease each other so bad. No, mean, it was, I mean, it was for me, it was a little like, sure, you know. But that’s also so much more my personality. And Meg is like, she’s like, no, really, you know, she’s like, I heard your album, you write, this is how this is your style of writing. And I could just see So yeah, those were my like my initial.
Erica Pasvar (12:44)
Hehehe
Lisa Apple (13:07)
But my initial thoughts, but yeah, things moved. mean, the ideas and everything with her, like things kind of were, to move pretty quickly with coming up with this whole script and yeah.
Erica Pasvar (13:18)
Once you, when you said finally yes to writing and everything, you know, starting to begin, I really love to hear about the writing process and how you decided, obviously it was gonna be musical because of writing music, how you two were able to come up with everything. She has a theater background and just, I’m so curious how the whole process came to be.
Lisa Apple (13:34)
Yeah.
Yeah, man, it’s kind of cool because looking back, so we were in, had worked in the same place. And so there was a lot of times where sometimes it was in between classes or it was like, let’s meet before school or let’s meet after school. And we would either get in her office or my office. And
It kind of just, it’s crazy how we just kind of synced up pretty quick and the ideas kind of started to flow. Lots of, all kinds of ideas, which is why we have so many inside jokes because we, from a collaborating standpoint, we kind of approached it over time. We approached it like, we have to say all of the bad, the worst, the dumbest ideas in order to get to the idea. And there has to be this shared,
safety, you know what I mean? there has to, like we have to, and we were friends. Like I kind of felt safe with her just in general, like, and I think her with me as well. And so it was kind of an easy, like next step to be like, okay, yeah, let’s be vulnerable and kind of bounce ideas off of each other. And it was nights and then it was weekends. And actually a lot of it happened.
idea kind of started, I think she came to me.
because we had both worked a little bit over the summer up at school. I think she came to me over the summer and then it was like that entire fall of 2019 that we kind of come up with this draft and the script. And what I found is we had first said like, or she had kind of suggested, let’s just take some of the songs from your album and kind of plug them in. You know what I mean? Almost like as markers for like what we’ll create, but also these songs would work. And so the more we got into
It’s crazy, because I would sit down at the piano at night, at my house or whatever, and I would start to have memories of certain things. There’s a song in the musical called Cases Like This, I remember being in the psych ward in Fort Worth after the whole thing with my brother. So he had,
had this whole other episode past the one that I had mentioned where he went on top of a billboard and he was naked. mean, it was, it’s like you imagine, gosh, what if I get cancer or my mom or I just use that because it’s sadly so But, and then there’s other things where you’re like, if this happened, you know, if this happened, like there are things that are just hard in life, you know, but this was one of those things where it was like,
You couldn’t even, I couldn’t have imagined, you know, kind of this crazy, truly act. And he had, it was like he had had another intense psychotic episode. He jumps off the second floor of his apartment where his roommates had kind of been trying to talk to him. He starts running down the street of Fort climbs up the ladder. Anyways, he gets himself on top of this billboard and he’s up there for about six.
seven hours, they block off the street, police, we were in like a police van trailer, negotiators negotiating with him. that whole thing, he came down, three days later, me and my mom are sitting across from this doctor and she’s like, you know, not hopeful and not really, you know, positive at all.
rightfully so in the field that she’s in. And I just remember she was just like, cases like this don’t end well. And we’re like, you know, this is James. Like, is he on drugs? he, like, it didn’t even cross our mind that like, from a mental capacity that like he may be struggling, because he never gave that off. And
remember sitting at the piano and kind of thinking through that whole scenario.
And that’s when I wrote the song Cases Like This. It’s a little for me that the whole process individually has been, you know, very cathartic. And I have to check myself all the time because I want to make sure it just continues to be honoring of the mental, you know, like mental health, my brother,
true story and, you know, meaning of like kind of what we want to get But then with Meg, it’s been
It’s been, we’ve had some really good, really hard, you know, collaborating is hard. You have to bring your whole self and good energy. And it’s not always that way, you know, and life is just busy and crazy, but we just, it was like, we’ve just, we just kept going. And then we entered 2020. And as you that actually gave us like a lot of time to.
Erica Pasvar (18:11)
you
you
Lisa Apple (18:33)
of time to like kind of perfect the script and kind of get it and work and we were you know stuck at home and all of that and so yeah just kind of more collaborating and coming up with things and so it’s been I mean it’s been really good yeah.
Erica Pasvar (18:46)
Yeah,
I can imagine that, like all the things that you said, working well together, then whatever conflict just because when you’re working with someone all the time, that just is inevitable. And then it’s bringing up all these feelings and emotions and memories with you and your brother and your family. Were was that like a form of therapy for you or were you kind of seeking additional help as well? Because that’s some deep stuff.
Lisa Apple (19:15)
You know, I’ve always been, I’m so thankful for this. I feel like I’ve always been, as much as I had mentioned earlier, I don’t really feel like I was in touch with myself and kind of like, I don’t know, like my gifts and really believing in myself, if you will. have always been so pro like, like I’m a verbal processor and kind of an extrovert in that way. And like, if I’m not okay or whatever.
and especially with all of that with my I had such good friends that just kept with me when it was just so weird and like, is going on, you And
I had already had a lot of therapy around. I remember after my brother passed away,
wasn’t attending this church, but at this church they had this grief recovery class, and I had had two roommates at the time, and this was back in 2010, 11. And I just told my roommates, I’m reserving
night, it was Tuesday night, so was this grief recovery class. And I said, I’m reserving this night for my grief.
to hold space for it. mean, because it happened, grief is so weird, it can happen, it comes up, yeah, like at any point. But I knew for myself in order to just fully process what was going on and not just kind of sweep it under the rug for it to rear its ugly head later, know, because it does. I had reserved those Tuesday nights and so they knew when I came home or whatever.
And I wasn’t like a monster, you know, or anything, or just like, you know, but it was just, I just kind of communicated with him, like, I want to process this and deal with this. And so if I’m just whatever on this specific night. So, and then my family’s just really open. Like my mom is kind of amazing in that way. Like she’s such an open person and it wasn’t like, we don’t talk about this and, you know, and James was fine. It was like, okay. Like I remember her calling me one time.
when she went to Nashville and she had actually said, she had told all of us, like she went to Nashville to get my brother and all of with my cousin. And she had said, I feel like God gave me Psalm 40. I waited patiently on the Lord, he inclined and heard my cry. And then it goes on, he set my foot on a rock, he gave me a new song, a firm place to land. And she said, let’s believe that for James. So she just was, she’s,
high faith and also just openness. And so it was like, we would go through, you know, times of sitting at dinner after time had passed, after losing my brother, talking, laughing, crying, remembering But I bring up that scripture to say like at his funeral, my mom like actually got up and just said, you know, life is just, we just don’t know. Like, and…
And her words were just like, the scriptures, you know, whatever you believe, you know, maybe it can take form in another way, but for her and for us specifically, was like, she just said, you know, the scriptures are so timeless. And she said, because James, he is singing a new song.
Like he has, he is in a firm place. Like he has his foot set on a rock. Like we didn’t know what we were praying, but he was not made for this world for long, you know.
And I believe that and I don’t, it’s not like, it makes me feel better. It’s like, man, you know, I knew my brother and I knew that he had faith in all of that. so anyway, so yes, the process of writing was like cathartic and kind of my own therapy, but I definitely, we started writing in like 2019. So it was like years later. Sorry, long answer, all of them.
Erica Pasvar (23:06)
Yeah.
No, but I want to say to your mom, she just sounds like she’s very strong, an incredible woman.
Lisa Apple (23:15)
She is. She really is. Thank you. Yeah, she’s awesome. Yes. my gosh. Yes. Yes. She’s, she’s wonderful. She actually wrote a book, by the way. It’s called Flourish Because. So I don’t know. You may want to interview her.
Erica Pasvar (23:19)
I’m glad you have her. I’m sure you were too.
Maybe so. All right, mom, when you listen to this, we’ll chat soon.
Lisa Apple (23:33)
I know, I know. I love you.
Erica Pasvar (23:39)
Okay. Well, so Lisa, so you and Meg, you’re writing
musical
you have a base? Were you looking at other musicals just to see kind of the flow of what musicals looked like or were you both just pretty knowledgeable of how musicals work, you know, the scripts and everything?
Lisa Apple (23:57)
Yeah, that’s a good question. We got to a point, like after a couple years where we were like, okay, you we need to make the ending more compelling or we need to do this. But we had, kind of going into it, we had definitely kind of both had our, she’s more into like, I say regular, like non-musical theater. And…
in film, she was into film, she lived in LA for a little bit and did some stuff out there. But her knowledge of script writing and all of really helped. And then I think my knowledge of musicals was good. But we got to a point a couple years into it where we were like, okay, we wanted to
change up the ending or we just didn’t feel like it was compelling, just kind of the way that we ended So we started looking and we had all these ideas and we literally started looking around at these specific musicals and we’re like,
Okay, there’s literally nothing new under the sun. Like, so many of these ideas have been done. So then we were just like, quit looking. Like, quit looking and like, stick to kind of the authenticity of the story. And that’s really, I don’t want to say that’s all we have, but like, yeah, we’ve kind of also gotten to where we’ve had to pick and choose, like, what are we willing to keep with this story? Because it’s about my And like, what are the non-negotiables, you know? And then what are we willing to like, kind of give creative liberties to? And so that’s been…
That’s been interesting, you know, and fun and yeah, like we’ve learned a lot from it also just from people that we’ve talked with along the way. yeah.
Erica Pasvar (25:25)
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I just even think about with both of your backgrounds, yes, you have musical, know, or you have choir, you know, musicals, and then Meg has acting theater background and just combining these two to create something that is super powerful and meaningful to you. And so now it’s, you know, six years later, you produced it in Dallas and you’ll produce it again this March.
Lisa Apple (25:32)
Yeah, music.
Erica Pasvar (25:49)
Where was it shown originally in Dallas? And then how did you find director and the actors? And I want to know about that process too. It’s just so fascinating.
Lisa Apple (25:55)
Yes. Well,
yeah, yeah. Well, the first time we did it in Dallas was like 22, I think. And it
like a preview, like the first kind of time to put it up fully. But it was like not fully fully. was the actors still had their, they didn’t have to memorize their, know, was kind of a little bit of a read through, but kind of more than that, there was blocking and stuff. And
I mean, we posted about it. So that was at Genesis Theater in Plano, which oddly enough was literally like a couple blocks from the house where my brother, like where we grew up. And so it was, and it was like the grocery store where we used to go. It’s this, it’s this pretty cool, great people, this children’s theater in Plano, Genesis Children’s
And Meg had actually, she had done a lot of work there. And so they were so gracious and awesome to let us like.
use their facility, even have some rehearsals there. And then we just posted about the musical and it’s interesting because, know, in your own town, I don’t know maybe if it’s it’s Dallas, Fort Worth, but like when you’re doing something new, it’s like people want what they know and what they recognize. And it is interesting,
how people can be very skeptical of something that is new. And some people are totally into that, like they’re into new works, and then there’s other people that they’re not really interested in. And so we learned pretty quickly, okay, we’ve got to get creative with how we’re going to find people. But it was like one person led to the other person who recommended So and So. And then we linked arms with this guy. His name is Heath Bromley, and he’s actually kind of like a partner in our show.
he helps us a whole bunch with like finances and things like that Meg and I are well, at least I’m like, gosh, you know, there’s there like we wear so many hats this whole time we’ve worn so many hats, but I mean, he came along. He actually was in our first like read through that we had at my house like a couple of weeks before COVID. But then.
But then, yeah, when we did our first preview, was actually in our first preview, now that I think about it. But then the following year, I think it was 2023, we did it
we produced it at…
Richardson United Methodist Church because they had a really good deal and they have a really like their contemporary worship center is a it was great. It was like a great stage, great facility. It’s hard to get on people again, get on people’s calendars and theaters and things like that if they don’t really know if they’re not familiar. And then Meg directed it. I musical directed it. We’ve kind of done that the whole time and
She’s really good at like scenic design, costumes, colors, lights, and I’m good at music.
Erica Pasvar (28:50)
Yeah.
Lisa Apple (28:54)
I mean, I’m like, oh, oh, like what can I do? But what’s interesting is that the music piece of it is like so, like I didn’t set out to just like, well, I’ll write a lead sheet with the melody and the piano. It was like, oh, I’m gonna add a violin. Oh, I’ll another violin. Oh, and a cello. Oh, the drums. And so now I like, I don’t have like a full score, but I kind of have this fully scored. So the first time we did it, we spent a lot of money on getting like live musicians and it was just.
It was like so magical. And then after that, we’re like, okay, well, we can’t afford that anymore.
but we did, like we ended up making an album, which really helped with having like tracks. And so when we did it in 2023, we used tracks yeah. And then it was like the summer, so I was 23.
feel like it was after that, like this past July in 2024 is when we got invited to go to come here to New York to 54 Below. it was just, we just did like the music, a music showcase, so, which was a
Erica Pasvar (29:56)
Wow, what was it like
when Nate, you got invited to New York?
Lisa Apple (29:59)
Well Meg is
like, Meg is such a hustler, that’s another thing about her. Like I’m learning, like I’m here in New York now and I’m just like trying to channel like Meg’s like, like her intense, don’t take no for an answer, go get you know? So, which is good, like it’s, I’m like okay, this is part of, this is part of like I’m growing and learning, but it was, yeah, so she had reached out to just tons of theaters around her, around here, and then 54 Below.
reply and they’re like, we’d love to have you guys like this looks interesting and great. And so, we were, I mean, it was, think it was like December. Yes, it was December of 2023 that it was literally like right after Christmas, either the day before or after. I don’t even remember, but it was just like, my gosh, like Merry Christmas, like what in the world we’re going to do this. And it was July 18th, think July And so, so yeah, that process was like, okay.
What money do we have? Who wants to go with us? How can we pay people? Which we really couldn’t. And so when we did it this past July at 54 Below, we helped everybody get And it was like we were taking tons of people from Dallas with us, because they were great. And they had
done the show the May before. Just great, great, great people. Some people we found in Dallas. I actually forgot to mention this. The show, when we did it in May of 2023,
the way that I found our lead guy that plays James, I was scrolling TikTok and I come across this guy and I had reached out to just as I’m scrolling like several, he actually, I sent him an email. He was so great. His name is Jack Austin. I mean, what a great name also, know, looks so good. But
emailed me and I didn’t even get the, I did not expect the email.
So I didn’t even see the email come in. And then like a week later, he emails again and he’s like, hey Lisa, I don’t know if you got my email. I mean, this guy has like literally like almost a hundred thousand followers. And so I was like, I’m like, my gosh, like this guy replied, like, you
know, and so I’m telling Meg and she’s like, reply, like, what are you doing? You know, like get it together. So anyway, he has been though, he’s been such a wonderful, he’s very talented. He’s, he’s, he certainly has a site set on being here in New York very soon.
Erica Pasvar (32:07)
Yeah.
Lisa Apple (32:23)
And yeah, like he’ll actually be with
in May at our 29 hour reading that we’re gonna have this May. But he joined us in Dallas. We basically had Zoom rehearsals. And then a week before the show, he came and actually he was in our preview as well.
He was in our first preview. A week before the show, he came and had to immerse himself in the blocking and everything. And there were points where you just see on his face, because he’s like 20, he’s just like, know, what in the world? But he did so good. Like a true, just like he is gold. Such a true talent. Because every time we did it, and then when we did it in May, I mean, anyway, very, very talented.
Erica Pasvar (33:12)
Wow. And you know, since he’s playing James, Jamie, your brother, like, I don’t know, I’m sure there’s a special connection. Yeah.
Lisa Apple (33:21)
They’re total,
it’s such a neat, it’s really neat, like even with him and then, I mean, it feels like all of them though, like with the girl that plays the mom, she’s like, she’s like mom, her and my mom, like it’s so Crazy thing about the girl that played, her name is Laura, she actually lost her son in a car accident, I believe when he was 19. And so this opportunity comes along for her and we didn’t know it for like,
a while, but then she pulled me aside and she’s like, you have no idea. This role for me is, it means, she’s like, I don’t have to really dig very deep for this. It’s right here, all of this as I’m going through these lines. the things that people have told us, I mean on that note, when you do a show like this that’s so raw and so vulnerable, not to jump too far ahead, but it’s amazing.
Like, it is amazing what people will tell you, or they’ll tell you, you know, I’ve never told anyone this, but my uncle or my aunt or me, you know, like some of the things that people will tell you. And that’s part of this whole journey with both Meg and I, that’s like, you can’t really put a dollar amount on that, you know, and you can’t put like a success, we did good, you know.
But every step of the way, it’s like, if it ended here, if it ended.
tomorrow, this is enough to get to hear people’s stories and give space to a topic, you know, and kind of a theatrical setting where people can kind of sit back and process. And I mean, that is, you know, what theater is, but it’s been, it’s just been really beautiful. So.
Erica Pasvar (35:05)
man, I bet. mean, so much for you, your family, and then these other people, like you said, that you didn’t even know that they, that somehow it would touch them and even more who will get to see it down the road. Will you, you touched base too that you, you know, now you’re living in New York, you just, you just moved there, big move. It’s been fun for me to see. For the listeners, Lisa’s been sharing her apartment search. You found one, right?
Lisa Apple (35:29)
Yes.
Erica Pasvar (35:29)
Yeah, okay, she found one. And
also said too that something’s happening in May, big read, tell us about that. You want to get the show off the ground on off Broadway and on Broadway and eventually licensed to schools. So tell us about the mood, tell us about the hopes and dreams for the musical and your time in New York.
Lisa Apple (35:43)
Yeah.
Me?
Yeah. So, well, Meg and I hope to do to write more musicals together. Like we’re kind of working on we’re starting another one that’s like has nothing to do with any of my family and it’s not true. So I feel like, that’ll be fun to kind of do get to do that with her in that way. But we we decided to after we did 54 Below in July, it’s like we
you know, went back to Texas and I, you know, picked up another year of teaching and so did she and she’s in Texas. Like she’s married, she’s got two boys and she’s actually at like a different private school now. But throughout all of last fall, yeah, I just kind of, we were talking about like, okay, we gotta ride this momentum of like we were in New York and our end goal is to have it licensed, like to get it.
ideally licensed by MTI, but to get it just with a licensing company. what we understand about that process is
musical kind of has to go all the way up, and then that’s when it’s picked up. And then the licensing process is just, then it can go out to high schools and colleges to be reproduced. so.
We, a 29 hour reading in New York is kind of like a part of process of developing a musical and it takes producers and it takes investors. not cheap. you basically, as writers, we hand the script over to a director here in New York who I’m pretty sure that we have secured, which is super exciting. She seems really cool and excited about kind of partnering with us.
And she’ll also like kind of get in the script with us and help us with the structure and things like So I’m really looking forward to that. But yeah, we’ll eventually hand her the script. then May is Mental Health Awareness Month. And so we just thought it’d be appropriate and good timing to do this that time. And so I am here. It was a very hard decision.
to leave in the middle of the semester at my school. Like that’s not really, yeah, that’s not really a thing to do. But I knew, felt like the time is now. And I also kind of felt like if I don’t leave, I may never leave. And I didn’t really wanna leave. But as far as this whole thing has come, I mean, I get like emotional about it. just, we could not have planned.
how this has evolved. so there is, and I’m such a hard sell, like I still get down on myself. Like I’m the type that’s like, yeah, it could be better. And Meg is like, it’s good. It’s good enough, you know? And I’m like, no, I don’t know. It’s okay, you know? And so this has been such a, yeah, like a learning process, a growing process for me as a person just, I hate to say to go with the flow, but to kind of like,
to see reality, to see that this musical, it’s evolving we work so hard. so being here means meeting actors and actresses, meeting producers, meeting investors. And just, have, it’s crazy how coming from Dallas, how the world is so small. So many people have put me in contact with other people that are on Broadway or music directors or whatever. And so I…
I left my school and it was very hard and it still is. I’m still just like what I did that. I also feel very fortunate, very grateful. I had been in a situation where I had money saved and
The last couple years, I’ve been living with my parents in a very small, like a small room. I’ve just been living like I was living in a New York apartment. I literally just have this small space.
Erica Pasvar (39:51)
Yeah.
Lisa Apple (39:56)
It’s like it made sense for me to make this transition. don’t anticipate it. Honestly, I love it here. This is where musicals happen. This is where things I think will happen for our show.
I don’t want to be here forever. I love Texas. I love my family. I love going to my niece and I’ve used basketball and soccer games and like I miss it all so much. And so there is certainly a level of sacrifice that has come with and I’m such a people, my people, person, people, know, whatever.
but we are, I mean, we are hopeful that after the 29 hour read,
We are very hopeful that it could go a lot of different directions. And so I don’t even really want to speak into like exactly. I mean, ideally it would be there would be enough investors or enough like buy in that it would get picked up off Broadway and eventually move to on Broadway. And it could be commercial in that way to really get to more audiences and to more people.
but we also trust that like it’s going to go.
It’s gonna go where it’s supposed to go for the people that are supposed to see it at the time that they’re supposed to see it, you know?
Erica Pasvar (41:13)
Yeah, absolutely. I’m trying to think too that you’re, so for the listeners too, we’re recording early February and your episode I believe is gonna come out in early March or mid-March, but your show that you’re it’s gonna, you’re producing it in Dallas. Is that open for people to see?
Lisa Apple (41:29)
Yes, yes, it will be. So our show is going to March 13th through the Actually, I mean, for you today, tickets will go on sale this Friday. so this, yeah, the show that we’re doing in March is it’s going to be at an art gallery in Dallas, like this new up and coming art gallery called Gallery DeFi. And actually the cool thing about the gallery is that
My brother
his best friend Trey, he co-owns this gallery. And so we’ve kind of come alongside each other and he’s super excited. His name is Trey Swofford.
Gallery DeFi has been, they’re great, they’re excited. It’s kind of random to do it in an art gallery, but they have the space and the facilities. And so we’re hoping that, I mean, we’re hoping that each night will sell out and that that will, that’s a big, like, we’re hoping that that will help us with the money.
to what happens in May. Yeah, I mean, that’s a huge part of it. But then also to just kind of, it’s been a little bit since we’ve done it in Dallas. And so, yeah, we’re super excited. A lot of the same cast, which is kind of fun, because it’s a bit of a family now. So I meant to mention also the girl that plays me in the show. It’s been a really cool, her name’s Mikayla, and it’s been a really cool.
She’s like she feels like a little sister. It’s pretty it’s cool. So anyway, yeah
Erica Pasvar (42:52)
Wow, that’s so neat. Lisa,
I’ll probably gonna bump your episode up then so that people, especially people in the Dallas area, I want them to come see this. I’m gonna look at after we get off, yeah, absolutely. After we get off, I’m gonna look at the calendar and I’ll rearrange everything in that. Well, okay, I’m just so excited for you just to see where what happens with this, where this takes off. like you said, even if it just ended now, which is not going to, but even if it did.
Lisa Apple (43:01)
Thanks Erica. Okay.
Thank you.
Erica Pasvar (43:18)
There’s been a purpose, there’s been a story in that. Something you shared with me too is that you went through a really rough patch to find yourself again and now you feel like you have found yourself again. How long did it take you to get back to you?
Lisa Apple (43:19)
You
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
I would say I would say I was like sort of on the journey for longer, but I would say like really focusing and like doing some kind of hard internal work for like about two So yeah, went through like a whole didn’t really know who I was, but knew like, well,
I live in Texas and I’m in my 30s and I should get married. I mean, I wanted to get married. I wanted to have kids. I wanted to do whole thing. so, like that, I ended up meeting someone and just sort of like, I didn’t know, again, like I had a lot of like codependency issues and things like that and just thought, well, I’m supposed to just, you know, always prefer the guy and help him and this and that. And I like took so much of it literally. And then,
You know, I look back on the whole, like my whole, wasn’t a super long marriage, but like it was several years too many, but I look back on all of that and so thankful. Like there are little patches of my life where I do look back and go, gosh, I wish I had known this about myself then or this, but I do look back on that time in my life of being married and I am thankful because I really do think it’s like, it was like almost the thing that I needed.
feel like I’ve had this, it sounds like such a cliche, but I do kind of feel like I had this awakening of like, oh my gosh, I’ve not been in touch with myself at
I’ve not known how to listen to my intuition and my gut, and what is the right thing, and I wasn’t living a free-for-all life, I was actually living, it was good, but in terms of,
really knowing how to take care of myself as a woman and how to have boundaries,
I was so far off course. so, yeah, the way everything kind of unfolded with my ex was just, I mean, it’s never easy and fun, I’m thankful. I’m thankful for him, and I’m thankful that, I don’t know, I feel like God just kind of picked me up and was like, okay, like.
now it’s time to do some work on yourself and now you’re alone and you’re living in your parents’ house. And there were some really dark days of just kind of feeling like I’ll always be a mess, like I’ll always be an emotional mess or always have turmoil. And it’s not true. I mean, it takes a lot of work. It’s not just like, well, I’ll watch some Instagram videos and do a little bit of hmm, or like read this or, know. mean, yeah, the wellness industry is like,
Erica Pasvar (46:12)
Yeah. Right.
Lisa Apple (46:16)
thriving and I don’t really know that we’re getting You know like but to to really kind of heal and put things together. It’s like it takes hope it takes belief and a lot of work like a lot of like so and a huge part of that I have a neuro coach oddly enough this girl this woman named Libby briscoe and I just I thought at one point in my life like I thought like after I got divorced like I don’t
I don’t know how I missed that. Like don’t really know how that went south and like how I picked the wrong guy or how that all evolved. And that scared the crap out of me. Like to not know. Because then I was just like, I’m gonna do it again. I’m gonna heal and everything and do counseling. I’d done all that stuff. But my mom actually told me about And it was this whole process of teaching me, mean this whole talking about rewiring your brain. Not like.
connecting things to your brain, but the actual work of becoming more aware of listening to your thoughts and deciding, getting to decide, that doesn’t have to be true, but it’s a bit of a, it’s definitely a bit of a journey. But I feel so free, so thankful, so much more
Yeah, just, and I have things to offer, know? I have advice and I have, this is my experience, and I don’t really regret it.
because man, there were so much golden moments that I still look back on that make me so thankful to wake up currently alone.
do have a boyfriend, he’s fabulous, but that’s another story. He’s in Dallas, so just shout out.
Erica Pasvar (47:55)
hey boyfriend. Well, you know, and it’s, mean, I know you said you’re glad you went through that because also at the same, like you didn’t want, you would never wanna go through that again, right? But in a way, glad you went through that because then now you wouldn’t be where you are now in the.
Lisa Apple (47:59)
Anyway, sorry I just had to get that in there. Okay.
Erica Pasvar (48:18)
confidence where you are at now and just all the things that you’ve worked through. mean, and I don’t even know in the timeline of everything, when you were married, had you started writing the musical or was that after the fact?
Lisa Apple (48:30)
It was, yeah, it was actually, was like, I think maybe three or four years into being married. And things were pretty bad and we kind of just like did our own thing. And so and like during COVID and stuff. yeah, he it was it. I look back and I’m like, well, that worked out because he certainly had enough hobbies to just keep himself busy and we would do things together here and there. But that’s kind of when I just sat and wrote. Yeah, a lot of
So, yeah.
Erica Pasvar (48:59)
So more than one kind of grieving options in that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, OK. So you had mentioned you were 36 when you got married, one of the last among your Now, since you’re no longer with
Lisa Apple (49:01)
many options, yes.
Erica Pasvar (49:13)
old are you now? 46. OK. Hey, this is more than your age podcast, Lisa. We are proud of our ages here. Yes, you’re doing these exciting things that you never imagined that you would do.
Lisa Apple (49:14)
I have 46.
That’s right. Forty seconds.
Mm-hmm.
Erica Pasvar (49:30)
We’re running out of time, so I’m gonna kind of morph my last two questions together that I’d love to hear from you. So one is the one I ask all my guests and the other one is I’m curious to know. So question number one is what would you say to single Lisa at 35 or whenever who wanted to be married and maybe I know at the time probably felt so old. And then if you could also in the same note.
two parts, encourage one woman who may feel blocked or limited to pursue a dream or goal based on her specific age or life circumstance. You had several life circumstances with you. So what would you say to her?
Lisa Apple (50:06)
I would say, first of all, like to the kind of the first question,
would say, mean, gosh, I feel like this first thing first thing such a bubble, but I would say like marriage is.
that whole, like kind of that dream for the girl that grows up in Texas in church and everything. Like to me, that was like, I see it all the time. I see it where I work or where I used to work at It’s like, that’s like the end goal. it’s just not, and it can be, you know, but unfortunately we’ve kind of reduced a lot of, how do I say this?
I do think that in a lot of circles, like being a woman is reduced to, and I don’t say this like, cause all of my friends have kids and being a mother, so it’s not reduced to, but it’s about having kids and it’s about being a wife. And what’s so crazy is like, if those things don’t happen or if they don’t happen in the timeline, it’s sort of this interesting, well then, like where are we left? Like what is our…
And obviously, you know, we’re told that our value is, of course, in so many other things and our gifts and what we pursue and like, there’s so many other opportunities, but there was, I grew up with kind of this underlying, but yeah, this would really be the best, you know? And so I would say you really have to like listen to yourself. And if you’re entrenched in communities where you’re like, I’m not really sure, like, I don’t know how this is gonna pan out for me.
If you have good friends, great. Like you need good friends and you need a good support system and you need people that will really support you if you’re like, I don’t know if I’m gonna get married or I don’t know about having kids or it could be anything. Like, yeah, I wanna pursue this, you know, whatever, like something that might be kind of outlandish, but it’s true. It’s like, if that’s in your heart.
And sometimes it takes a long time to hear that, you know? Sometimes it takes a long time to like hear that voice that says like, no, no, this is it, this is it, you went over here again, like come back, this is it.
But it’s there, like if you stop and think about it, like everybody, it may not be a big, huge thing or, you know, something that in a certain environment or whatever is really, you know, esteemed,
I think it takes time to stop and listen.
And then to realize, like at the end of the day, you lay your head down at night and all you have is you and your thoughts and you’re like answering to God. And it’s not about like, well, God
didn’t do this, he didn’t do this, he didn’t give me this, you know? It’s like, what did you do? And it’s not about what everyone else did or what they did to you or what they didn’t do. It’s like, no, this is, and life is, it’s just, it’s kind of scary that way, but then it’s also.
It’s so rewarding because
think there’s a place for everybody and it takes a lot of work, you know?
But yeah, and the whole like following your dream and stuff and I mean, I’ll probably be following my dream till I’m like 80. So I don’t know that I could necessarily speak to, but I think you just, the second that you feel like your dream is dying, I do kind of think that’s when you go like, okay, you know, I need to reassess and I need to decide like.
Where is there a need or where is there, like what else do I love to
So, yeah.
Erica Pasvar (53:34)
I
love that. Yeah, I love it. And I love it too how you just said, you know, looking at what is, you know, everyone else or somebody else, it’s yourself because if we go down that rabbit hole, we’re going to keep digging and it’s not going to end, you know.
Lisa Apple (53:48)
Yeah, or like follow
someone else’s dream or yeah, I mean like.
Erica Pasvar (53:51)
Right.
Yeah, absolutely. Well, Lisa, thank you so much. Please share where Dallas folks can purchase tickets because I will release this before the show and plenty of time too.
Lisa Apple (53:54)
Yeah.
Erica Pasvar (54:04)
where can they get tickets and follow along and learn more about you and your musical?
Lisa Apple (54:10)
Yeah,
if you go to like on Instagram, you can go on Instagram to Boy on Billboard. Also, let me pull up. Hold on a second. I’m going to make sure I get the right website. The tickets. can also go to Boy on dot com. But if you go to yeah, there it is. OK, if you go to
just Google and the website will come up for Gallery DeFi and it’s D E F I. are selling the tickets on
their website. you can also, I mean, yeah, you can DM our Boy on Billboard account. We all check it, Meg and Heath and I. Yeah, and it’s March 13th through the 16th.
And yes, we would love, we’re working on it now, and so we’re super excited. Thank you.
Erica Pasvar (54:53)
That’s awesome. can’t
wait. Yes, absolutely. And I’ll put that in the show notes too for people to check out if they didn’t grab it the first time listening to it. Well, Lisa, thank you so much for taking the time sharing your story, sharing your heart. I appreciate you joining me today on the More Than Your Age podcast.
Lisa Apple (55:10)
Thank you, Erica.